Loving God? Omniscient God? Forgiving?
Christians, I would like to discuss this, so I will word this as respectfully as I can.?
I don't understand how the God of Abraham is seen as kind, good, and loving.
I don't understand why "unconditional love" isn't paired with unconditional forgiveness.
I don't understand why, if Jesus was sent to atone for sins, it wasn't just over with right then.
I don't understand how something that supposedly created us can hold us in such contempt.
I don't understand why any of this would have happened, from the Adam and Eve story on, if God was truly omniscient.
I don't see how free will can exist with an omniscient creator.
Great Questions...
> I don't understand how the God of Abraham is seen as kind, good, and loving.
Have you ever breathed air? Well that's His. He gave it to you. He gave you life. He formed you in your mothers womb as the bible says. He knows the number of hairs on your head. If you don't think giving someone existance, life, breath, and all of the things in this world is not kind, good, or loving, then I'm not sure how you would define those three words.
> I don't understand why "unconditional love" isn't paired with unconditional forgiveness.
Because God wants you to love Him back. Of your own free will. Hell isn't the issue, because we all deserve that anyway. God wants a people who will recognize Him and obey Him because they want to, rather than being forced to. If you are unconditionally forgiven, then you would be with god whom you hate forever. Many times the loving thing to do is to let go. That's what God does when He passes Judgment. He lets you go to your own fleshly desires, that lead to death.
> I don't understand why, if Jesus was sent to atone for sins, it wasn't just over with right then.
In the bible, God works in Ages. The first age was Adam. That didn't work, because Adam sinned. The second age was before the flood. That didn't work, because every thought and desire of men in their hearts were continuously evil. Then the age of the Law. The Jews were made to be the most prosperous nation on the planet at that time, but that didn't pan out. Men started keeping the law for tradition's sake, not because they Loved God. The next age is the age of Grace. That is what Jesus accomplished on the Cross. This age has brought a large amount of division between those who love God and those who love the world. I'm not sure why God setup History like that, but I'll be sure to ask when I get to heaven.
> I don't understand how something that supposedly created us can hold us in such contempt.
In fact the opposite is true. You hold God in contempt by not believing in Him. Everytime you sin, it shows that you are making yourself an enemy of God. God created you for a purpose. That purpose is to accurately reflect His image on Earth. When you break the commandments, you are rebelling against your purpose and rebelling against your God. You have free choice, and God never changes. God hates sin. He has always hated sin. He will always hate sin. If you love your sin, then you're saying you love what God hates, and make yourself his enemy. God however is patient and Kind. He has given you life to this point.
I don't understand why any of this would have happened, from the Adam and Eve story on, if God was truly omniscient.
Omniscient means all knowing. God knew Adam and Eve would sin. That is why He planned Jesus dieing on the cross before the earth was ever created. All of creation points to the single act of Jesus hanging and dieing on that cross. It is a thing that Angels marveled at. The Earth shook, the Sun stopped shining, and that Curtain that separated Man from God was torn at that very hour. God planned it so that all of Creation would worship and adore Him for being so kind and loving and good as to have died for wicked people like us.
> I don't see how free will can exist with an omniscient creator.
It works like this. We have free will. We do what we want, but we are also influenced as well. God knows all things. He sees your life from beginning to end, as He looks at the Earth from the eternal perspective. Since He knows things, He can influence people and directions. But He lets us stay in the drivers seat as long as we want. When we repent and trust in Him, we surrender our lives to Him. We allow Him to drive our life and hold on, in absolute trust that God's promices are true and that He already knows the outcome before we get there.
I hope this helped a little bit. Comment on my blog if you have any other questions or responses.
I don't understand how the God of Abraham is seen as kind, good, and loving.
I don't understand why "unconditional love" isn't paired with unconditional forgiveness.
I don't understand why, if Jesus was sent to atone for sins, it wasn't just over with right then.
I don't understand how something that supposedly created us can hold us in such contempt.
I don't understand why any of this would have happened, from the Adam and Eve story on, if God was truly omniscient.
I don't see how free will can exist with an omniscient creator.
Great Questions...
> I don't understand how the God of Abraham is seen as kind, good, and loving.
Have you ever breathed air? Well that's His. He gave it to you. He gave you life. He formed you in your mothers womb as the bible says. He knows the number of hairs on your head. If you don't think giving someone existance, life, breath, and all of the things in this world is not kind, good, or loving, then I'm not sure how you would define those three words.
> I don't understand why "unconditional love" isn't paired with unconditional forgiveness.
Because God wants you to love Him back. Of your own free will. Hell isn't the issue, because we all deserve that anyway. God wants a people who will recognize Him and obey Him because they want to, rather than being forced to. If you are unconditionally forgiven, then you would be with god whom you hate forever. Many times the loving thing to do is to let go. That's what God does when He passes Judgment. He lets you go to your own fleshly desires, that lead to death.
> I don't understand why, if Jesus was sent to atone for sins, it wasn't just over with right then.
In the bible, God works in Ages. The first age was Adam. That didn't work, because Adam sinned. The second age was before the flood. That didn't work, because every thought and desire of men in their hearts were continuously evil. Then the age of the Law. The Jews were made to be the most prosperous nation on the planet at that time, but that didn't pan out. Men started keeping the law for tradition's sake, not because they Loved God. The next age is the age of Grace. That is what Jesus accomplished on the Cross. This age has brought a large amount of division between those who love God and those who love the world. I'm not sure why God setup History like that, but I'll be sure to ask when I get to heaven.
> I don't understand how something that supposedly created us can hold us in such contempt.
In fact the opposite is true. You hold God in contempt by not believing in Him. Everytime you sin, it shows that you are making yourself an enemy of God. God created you for a purpose. That purpose is to accurately reflect His image on Earth. When you break the commandments, you are rebelling against your purpose and rebelling against your God. You have free choice, and God never changes. God hates sin. He has always hated sin. He will always hate sin. If you love your sin, then you're saying you love what God hates, and make yourself his enemy. God however is patient and Kind. He has given you life to this point.
I don't understand why any of this would have happened, from the Adam and Eve story on, if God was truly omniscient.
Omniscient means all knowing. God knew Adam and Eve would sin. That is why He planned Jesus dieing on the cross before the earth was ever created. All of creation points to the single act of Jesus hanging and dieing on that cross. It is a thing that Angels marveled at. The Earth shook, the Sun stopped shining, and that Curtain that separated Man from God was torn at that very hour. God planned it so that all of Creation would worship and adore Him for being so kind and loving and good as to have died for wicked people like us.
> I don't see how free will can exist with an omniscient creator.
It works like this. We have free will. We do what we want, but we are also influenced as well. God knows all things. He sees your life from beginning to end, as He looks at the Earth from the eternal perspective. Since He knows things, He can influence people and directions. But He lets us stay in the drivers seat as long as we want. When we repent and trust in Him, we surrender our lives to Him. We allow Him to drive our life and hold on, in absolute trust that God's promices are true and that He already knows the outcome before we get there.
I hope this helped a little bit. Comment on my blog if you have any other questions or responses.
posted by D @ Tuesday, March 06, 2007
4 Comments:
At February 04, 2008,
Jakekey said…
Thanks for posting these questions and answers. I have asked these questions from time to time. Especially during those time when Waiting on the Lord. God's process in our lives are complex at times, perhaps to get us to work out the answer for modern times. I have come to depend on the Bible and the words of those who have personal experiences to share. The children saw Jesus much different than the adults of the time, why do you suppose that was? Thank you for doing your blog!
At December 25, 2008,
Anonymous said…
1. You didn't answer the question, how God told Abraham to murder his son. There is no love in even testing a father's conviction this way.
2. How does the threat of eternal damnation not constitute as use of force? "Behave or Die" does not sound like a free will I'd be thankful for. And who created Hell, who made the rule that sin sent you there? God did.
3. I'm glad you concede the point that God's actions have no rational explanation here. A God that plays games and moves in "mysterious" ways is of little use to non believers.
4. Again, you assume that a life of free choice can only exist in two dimensions: Behave or Die. That is not freedom. Why aren't the infinities of the cosmos large enough for more than two types of people? Ask yourself why God decided to make sin a bad thing.
5. The notion that "God planned it so that all of Creation would worship and adore Him for being so kind and loving and good" sounds pretty narcissistic doesn't it? Why does God crave our love so much, doesn't he have any other friends that like Him for who He is, and not because He does stuff for them (like saving their lives)?
6. How does "staying in the driver's seat" as God pulls his magic strings to manipulate and influence things in the world constitute "free will"? And "surrender our lives to Him" sounds absolutely horrifying, thank you.
At December 26, 2008,
D said…
1. You didn't answer the question, how God told Abraham to murder his son. There is no love in even testing a father's conviction this way.
God asks specific people to do specific things knowing who they are and what their response would be. He tests us specifically according to who we are, now what others think. You thinking killing a son because God told you to would be outlandish, but to Abraham, it was a test of faith. Why? Because God had already promised that through Isaac, Abraham would be blessed with many descendants. Abraham also knew that God can not lie. Therefore Abraham could take his promised son up to sacrifice him because He knew Isaac wouldn't die, or if he did, he would be raised again. In terms of loving, let's say that you give your child something and they play with it all day long. Then you say you want it back to test to see where their heart is. If they say no, then they love the thing more than you. If they say "here dad, you can have it back", it shows that they love and respect you more than the object itself. So too should be our Love for God, that even if he takes away everything, we still love Him.
2. How does the threat of eternal damnation not constitute as use of force? "Behave or Die" does not sound like a free will I'd be thankful for. And who created Hell, who made the rule that sin sent you there? God did.
Misunderstanding 1) Telling someone about Hell is not a threat. It's a warning. The most loving thing for me to do with you is to plead with you to repent and trust in Christ today, because I know the consequences.
Misunderstanding 2) Behave or Die is not Christian in any way. Christianity says you're already dieing, repent and trust to be saved.
You have a free will. You can keep on living in sin or you can turn your life to Jesus Christ who will change you from the inside out. You'll stop loving sin and start hating it. You'll have new desires. And the world will hate you as they do Christ.
3. I'm glad you concede the point that God's actions have no rational explanation here. A God that plays games and moves in "mysterious" ways is of little use to non believers.
God is not your servant. I don't think you really "get" it. God made you. You didn't make God. God has every right to do anything He wants to you or me or anyone else for that matter. You need God for life but God doesn't need you. He could kill you in a million ways this very instant if he chose to, but He wants that none should perish in their sins.
4. Again, you assume that a life of free choice can only exist in two dimensions: Behave or Die. That is not freedom. Why aren't the infinities of the cosmos large enough for more than two types of people? Ask yourself why God decided to make sin a bad thing.
Again, you bring up behavior. Behavior has Nothing to do with salvation. Salvation depends on attitude and surrender. There's nothing you can do right anyway, so why do you think God expects that you can behave by being threatened? God wants you to realize your helpless state and that He is in control. He wants you to trust in Jesus' payment on the cross to pay for your sins, and He wants you to surrender to Him. It's a hard step because you don't trust God. But He is good.
5. The notion that "God planned it so that all of Creation would worship and adore Him for being so kind and loving and good" sounds pretty narcissistic doesn't it? Why does God crave our love so much, doesn't he have any other friends that like Him for who He is, and not because He does stuff for them (like saving their lives)?
Again, God doesn't need anything from us, however we are objects of His glory. If you build a house yourself, you can look back and see what you've built and be satisfied. You can also invite others over to look at what you've built. It's a loose analogy, but God created us to love and enjoy Him forever. Your understanding of God is about the size of an ant's toenail. When you see who He really is there will be no breath left in your being because you'll stand in awe of His greatness, glory, might, power, and love.
6. How does "staying in the driver's seat" as God pulls his magic strings to manipulate and influence things in the world constitute "free will"? And "surrender our lives to Him" sounds absolutely horrifying, thank you.
You sound like a criminal who thinks surrendering to the police is absolutely horrifying. Guess what, it will be when they catch you at death. so get ready. But if you willingly turn yourself in knowing that someone has already paid the price for your crimes, then should you fear surrendering? You're missing some information. I don't think you quite "get it" yet. Keep searching.
At February 05, 2010,
Anonymous said…
Hey...great site....I came across the website...obviously by an atheist..and I think it would be cool to answer all his stupid statments/questions and knock him off his high horse
http://www.orangeacid.net/blog/2008/04/01/10-questions-that-every-intellegent-christian-should-answer
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